Tuesday, September 2, 2014

Yet Another Facebook Encounter


Since the danger to kind, loving, and peaceful people by whatever the en-vogue term is this week has become so obvious, I no longer agree with the libertarian view regarding security in the U.S. or elsewhere. If all people were kind and loving, like we all want, we could all be free. I like the idea of total freedom, but I have always questioned the notion that if all were left to themselves, we might then see the rise of feudalism again. Because there will always arise among us evil people. The power mongers. Those who simply cannot be happy unless they control all others. They will always be here among us, waiting for the opportunity. This is simply reality. I pray for the day when such evil no longer exists.
I think it is obvious that there are plenty of people in our World who simply don't ascribe to the kindness doctrine. There will always be those who relish the idea of a weak country ripe for takeover. So, for the time being IMO, we need a strong response to those who want to kill us simply because we disagree. When the evil of those who take pleasure in murdering kind people can be mostly eradicated, perhaps a time will come when kind and loving people can finally be free. Until then, who knows. As for me, it is heartbreaking to know that good people are being tortured and murdered in horrendous ways and nothing is being done to stop it. We just can't stand by and let this happen. And for all those who disagree, may you be well always.
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·       Duncan Long and 12 others like this.
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Fran Weatherford-Brown I fear the charlatans of this country as much as the terrorists from other countries..our way of life is so tenuous right now
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Brian Wilson It's somewhere between Sad and Tragic reasonably intelligent people think" If all people were kind and loving, like we all want, we could all be free. " -- precisely why i'm not libertarian ". when reality states: The 
observance of the NAP (non-aggression principle) does NOT require "kind, loving, and peaceful people". It requires respect for the individual, his unalienable rights and his private property. If aggressively trespassed, one has the natural right to respond accordingly, not suffer the violation." What is the alternative" Reliance on an immoral "State" to do what you have the unalienable right to do for yourself? Only Collectivists, Statists and other assorted lovers of Government Force expect immoral organizations to do their dirty work for them.
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Dan Svoboda there are more immoral private citizens than all the members of all the world's governments combined. in a single US city.
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Dan Svoboda they seek to control government officials through their accumulated wealth. accumulated wealth is the real enemy of the people.
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Dan Svoboda and what's wrong with collectivism? people need to cooperate on some level; i.e act collectively. what's the right scope and scale? i don't know, but i'm sure it must be greater than we have now.
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Brian Wilson "people need to cooperate on some level; i.e act collectively" - And they do. Voluntarily. Every day. What's wrong with "Collectivism" ? It is just another -ism imposed through force by the State. If fascism, communism, despotism, socialism is your thing, Collectivism is a really good primer that leads to any one of the others.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda good. maybe it'll lead to socialism
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson If it does, be sure to let us all know how much you'll be enjoying it.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda and, what the hell do you think our state is for? it's to impose the will of some over others. maybe you think we should allow the spewing of all manner of toxins into the air and water?
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Dan Svoboda i say the will of the common people takes precedence over the will of the wealthy, businesses, and privileged.
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson It's not what's "best", it's who gets to decide what's best.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Brian Wilson Just how would the Svoboa "state", effectuate the "will of the common people"?
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda yes, but the individual is not the right source of what's best, because individuals will always choose themselves over the good of others.
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Brian Wilson And the State's choices have worked so well - everywhere.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda repair the state
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda start by voting democrat
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda then push for an amendment to the constitution to rid the electoral process of the influence of money
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson Right. Because elected "officials" have always been responsive to the will of the people.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda so, what's *your* solution? elect republicans? those in the pocket of the Kochs?
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda if you say "elect some third party candidate", keep dreaming.
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson You might notice I wrote "elected officials", not even suggesting "republicans”. As for "dreaming", it lies somewhere between naive and delusional to think that any elected official of any party in any government will do anything that doesn't accumulate power to himself and his "party". Lord Acton: "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." The State is an immoral entity as are those that support it.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda no state?
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda anarchy?
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda hunger games?
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson Anarchy - as properly defined and understood, not seen thru some Tinsel Town absurdity - is the moral attainment of actual Freedom and Liberty. Voluntary cooperation between individuals removes any need for "government" or its presumed "authority". If  you're inclined to respond with all the usual cliches, it would only reflect an ignorance/prejudice on the subject and end any basis for discussion. If, otoh, you have an interest in how Anarchy ("no ruler") actually works, we may have something of substance...
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda keep dreaming
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson And you keep deluding yourself.
19 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
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Brian Wilson Personally, I prefer dreaming...
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson ...at least they are based in reality.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda no. just working with what we've got, and dreaming my own dream.
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson What' "you've got" has never and will never work. Believing - actually believing - you can elect someone, enough someones, to enact legislation "to rid the electoral process of the influence of money" is beyond comprehension...unless you are terminally ignorant of the history of governance. Government is Force. Force is Immoral. Neither Government, you or you and a bunch of buds have the right to force your "vision thing" on anyone. Persuasion, voluntary agreement, mutual cooperation are the things of Freedom. Judging from your comments above, you prefer Force over Freedom. That's not a "dream", that's a nightmare and an immoral one at that. It's what the world has had since some men assumed the authority to rule other men through Force. And that's called Slavery. Apparently you're comfortable with making slaves of those you don't like, using the FOrce of Government. Check history. You might learn it has never worked out well for your cherished "will of the common people". And it won't....
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda start a revolution, then. you'll be crushed.
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda might be entertaining, as long as it doesn't disrupt my life.
19 hrs · Edited · Like
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Brian Wilson "...as long as it doesn't disrupt my life.". You'll have fun alright. The State will handle that part just fine; it's one of the 3 things it does best. Enjoy.
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda currently enjoying quite well, personally. i'd like it better if others shared my enjoyment.
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson Give it to them! Or do you prefer the State forcibly taking it from you and re-distributing it to them? Or are you on the receiving end of Stolen Property?
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda i pay taxes, which are re-distributed. i don't approve of where some of it goes, but in general, i'm in favor of the idea.
19 hrs · Edited · Like
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Brian Wilson But you can give more so more can "share[d] my enjoyment."! Why don't you? You must be related to those greedy Koch brothers.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda no. those greed koch bros are the ones not contributing enough
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson What's enough?
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda til they squeal and beyond
19 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson So I can ask govt to do the same to you.
19 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda i'm already contributing a fair amount
19 hrs · Like
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Dan Svoboda i don't deny that i want to impose my values
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Dan Svoboda better yet, that my values become the norm
18 hrs · Like
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Brian Wilson What's "fair amount" According to whom? " i don't deny that i want to impose my values - better yet, that my values become the norm". So essentially, you are a closet tyrant, pissed off at anyone who does better, has more than you. You have no principled basis for your alleged "belief system" you are merely a fan of using Force against those with whom you disagree or don't like with no factual basis for your deluded "opinion".. How adolescent. Since you have amply displayed not a scintilla of ability or desire to discuss matters about which your only response is the "solution" of Force, I leave you wallowing in your ignorance - which you so obviously enjoy. ...
18 hrs · Like · 1
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Dan Svoboda i'm not closeted. does "better"? define better.
18 hrs · Like
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Jeff Boles To make a long story short . . . Brian Wilson, I agree with you. Dan Svoboda, I disagree with you. I wish I could leave at that, but I simply can't. To me, it is a matter of basing beliefs on facts and logic versus emotion. I attempt to base my beliefs on the former, which is the reason I find such illogic in political parties . . . IMO largely based on emotion and which only benefit politicians . . . and are a detriment to society in general. I can identify with the Anthony Hopkins' character in "Legends of the Fall" who maybe at one time felt governments' role was for the betterment of society, but later became sickened by their actions. And hence my favorite line regarding matters deemed "private" by one holding a "public" office. Dan, with regard to having government decide what is best and what is fair, why do you think simply selecting someone from the same pool of "private" people you so abhor magically elevates them to a higher mental and ethical plane so as to allow them to "determine" what "fair" and "right" means for all those they now rule over? Good luck with that idea. They are now in bed with those you condemn (the rich). Please get that.
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Jeff Boles Brian Wilson and Dan Svoboda, while I am on a rant, there's this: The bottom line is that some just can't handle the idea of others possessing more than they, regardless of legitimate reasons for such. Such as effort, hard work, talent, luck, etc. A few win the lottery by no work or effort. Others attain wealth from hard work. Others attain it through inheritance by someone who earlier worked hard. And, some gain wealth by heartless means. That is just life. Simply because someone is elected to an "office" does not make such a person gifted with a higher knowledge to determine what is "fair". Simply because someone elected from the same pool of humans into governments now announces something such as, "they must give their fair share" . . . . . who on earth determines what is "fair"? How does mere election to an "office" elevate someone to make such a judgment? What makes election to an "office" deem them superior to pronounce such judgment upon all others? Such means nothing, unless one ascribes to the ridiculous notion that because someone has more than another, that one somehow deserves a part of that.

Who cares if someone has more than another? I don't. And I don't have much. I only sought to attain that which I would be satisfied with. No more. Is one happy with what one has? If not, work to obtain more without the hindrance of some greedy entity holding you back. If one is happy with what one has, why worry about others who have more, unless they are stealing from one? Rich people do not steal from another simply because they are rich. Rather, rich people are the stolen from the most via taxes for redistribution to others. That is theft which hurts everyone. And it simply drives those who provide jobs away. If one does not believe that, they are simply ignoring facts and simple math. Rich people provide jobs for everyone. If a country makes attaining wealth via hard work or long training unattainable, perhaps no one will do that or move away, along with the associated jobs that would result.

Many have tried and failed at business. Many risked all and lost. A few made it, some out of luck, some out of hard work, and some because they had money gifted to them via inheritance. That does not mean anyone is entitled to take it away from them. When greedy governments (translation: greedy politicians who only want power to control others) impose taxes and regulations so ridiculous that corporations and businesses are forced to locate in other countries to remain profitable, it is not the businesses that are at fault, but the power monger politicians that don't like the idea that their revenue decreases, reducing their power to purchase votes to remain in power.

If politicians really cared about those they rule over, they would reduce corporate and all other taxes and regulations to below those countries to where our businesses are moving to. Who can't get that? But, some would rather see all people poor than to allow some to be rich, even if those rich provide the jobs that employ us. Envy. And politicians exploit this irrational thinking. Let's get America competitive again with other countries and lower our business tax rates to below that of those to where our businesses are moving to. How hard is that to get? This will create jobs here and bring businesses back here. Use logic and facts and get rid of the emotional hatred for those who have more than another.

We all want businesses to locate here. When government will finally make our country competitive with those to where our businesses are moving to, we will see a booming economy. Stop government greed for power via draconian tax rates and regulations and bring businesses to this country by making it the most profitable place to locate. Then you will see a vast increase in employment, and Heaven forbid, also a vast increase in revenues for greedy politicians. I believe in a much much smaller government, and it seems illogical to me that some politicians push tax and regulation policies which push businesses out of this country. It is illogical, and they know it. But they trust that they can gin up the envy factor among their base to somehow defy logic, resulting in a stagnant economy which could otherwise be booming now if not for the current policies which are only hindering economic growth. It is very simple to see, based on logic and empirical evidence. But, with emotional turmoil being pushed by some in government, it is difficult to see how things could improve anytime soon. Let's get rid of the emotional envy factor pushed by politicians to garner votes for power and implement policies which will bring our businesses back here via tax and regulation policies that are competitive with those to where are our businesses are fleeing to. This seems like simple logic to me.
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Jeff Boles And, even though I know it will never happen in my lifetime, I do hope someday for a no-ruler, free society. When society evolves to that point. In the meantime, I think we can make small steps.
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Brian Wilson If one's "opinion" isn't based on irrefutable fact, what else could it possibly be based upon that wouldn't ultimately reveal one to be a colossal, gullible ass? Such is the danger of calling your prejudice, an emotional disturbance, your belief system. To further state one wishes "to impose" such "values" on society reveals that person to be void of any moral substance and possessing, at best, a flaccid grasp of humanity. To contend with such people is a waste of valuable resources...